COSC accuracy vs the Chinese (and why it's not all that important)

Jan 25, 2013,19:47 PM
 

Over 1 million COSC certificates are issued annually, mostly to Rolex, Omega, and Breitling. While buying my first watch proper, I took chronometer certification very seriously and demanded it. Not surprisingly, with my budget, I ended up with a Breitling. While it was quite accurate, it didn't meet my somewhat haute horologerie expectations. I was then shocked to find that most of what Patek, Vacheron, AP, JLC, and other respected brands produced were in fact not certified. Later I learned that pretty much any well made movement was capable of being adjusted to COSC specifications. 


Below is a sample COSC certificate (courtesy of Dell Deaton):



It basically certified that the movement (not the entire watch) has been tested in the 5 specified positions (mostly at STP of 23 degrees C) and also with dial up at 8 and 38 degrees C. The accuracy requirements over 24 hours are -4/+6 seconds in 24 hours.



So certification must be a good thing right?

Well I'm about to demonstrate how a sub 300 dollar seagull 1963 reissue (with caliber ST-19 based on the swiss Venus cal. 173) has been adjusted by me to better than COSC rates. It might have taken a good 30 minutes to do but the results are (All results measured on a Timegrapher 1000 accurate to 1 second/day, near full wind, rate in seconds/day, amplitude in degrees, and beat error in milliseconds):



Without chronograph running



With chronograph running



Both of the rates average out to a very accurate chronometer grade watch. But we need to remember that this is by no means meant to be a chronometer. The movement is of reasonably high quality but designed to be manufactured at minimum cost rather than maximum precision.


So what's the conclusion? COSC certification is a nice thing to have, but certainly not worth the premium frequently charged. We still have to rely on the integrity of the manufacturer to use quality parts and oils and craftsmanship.

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That is a vast topic.

 
 By: amanico : January 25th, 2013-20:09
I am working on that topic for some 14 months, now, and will need some more 11 months before publishing it. One example to illustrate your observations, as you mentionned JLC. JLC states that their Master 1 000 Hours Control is more demanding than the COS... 

That's some bit of work you're doing

 
 By: Ed. W : January 25th, 2013-20:20
really looking forwards to when you get it out. Hopefully you'll be giving us peaks and hints along the way.

COSC vs MC 1000 hours

 
 By: Velociphile - No longer in the building : September 24th, 2014-04:28
For my own interest I made a comparison of the performance of Master Control 1000 hours test and the COSC here . Velo

Thanks Ed, my 1958 shanghai watch runs more

 
 By: Mech : January 25th, 2013-20:13
accurately than my 'high end' watches over a week and has a power reserve of 55 hours. Anyway, accuracy is really not that important to me so long the watch keeps a decent time for a week (I don't wear my watch for longer than than that usually).. Cheers ... 

But how did the watch run when it came from the factory?

 
 By: mkvc : January 25th, 2013-23:04
The certification is an indication of how the watch company delivered its product, not how it worked after careful and skilled adjustment. How did your watch do with the temperature changes in the COSC standard? You make a good point, though: for me the r... 

The scandal part is relevant to Lange actually

 
 By: Ed. W : January 26th, 2013-06:16
as much as I love their watches, you can read on the WatchTime magazine reviews that they really tend to perform poorly when it comes to rate. For example, the L941.1 used in the Saxonia had a max deviation of 11 seconds (+8 Crown left, -3 crown up) and t... 

That is the very point I was trying to make

 
 By: amerix : January 26th, 2013-08:53
in, of all places, the Lange Forum - if buried in a Moritz on the 1815. Here it is again, slightly amended: < My RL-PLM is not so different. What I have come to expect from a high-end but "simple" watch is not a demonstration of an historical or technica... 

let's not oversimplify too much

 
 By: ei8htohms : January 26th, 2013-08:22
Hi Ed, Adjusting (or simply regulating) a watch to the -4 to +6 range at full wind and taking a snapshot of the performance on a timing machine does not a chronometer make. I know that you know this, but to someone less informed than yourself, that might ... 

Thank you John, I always appreciate your experienced comments

 
 By: Ed. W : January 26th, 2013-08:35
There is indeed more to this whole accuracy business than just a snapshot rate. I actually did test it over some periods of time and the rates correspond to those snapshots so isochronism seems decent. I have yet to try temperature, I'm not sure how well ... 

congrats!

 
 By: ei8htohms : January 26th, 2013-08:46
I still love the JLC MUT and always linger for a moment when I see one. It's near perfect in some regards. Did you have to adjust the curb pin distance or otherwise tweak the hairspring on your Seagull to the get the results you posted? Sometimes you can ... 

The beat error was fine when I got it

 
 By: Ed. W : January 26th, 2013-09:12
so I didn't touch the curb pin. It seems the results I got were consistent with the experience of others who have attempted to regulate this movement. I wasn't sure of the lift angle so I left it at 52 degrees, not sure if you could PM me some resource fo... 

curb pin distance would usually be adjusted for isochronism

 
 By: ei8htohms : January 26th, 2013-09:49
Hello Ed, To correct for beat error (assuming your hairspring is well centered) you'd want to move the stud carrier or turn the hairspring collet. Curb pin distance is usually altered to improve isochronism between high amplitude and low amplitude, whethe... 

i'm more interested in on the wrist accuracy than a certificate.

 
 By: G99 : January 27th, 2013-06:35
i wear my watches in bed as well as during the day and i want them to be accurate on a day by day basis. as an example, my newest watch, a brand you are aware of, Ed, runs at a consistant +2 seconds a day straight out of the box. i am very happy with that... 

Unfortunately

 
 By: Ed. W : January 27th, 2013-08:17
I've found that particular watch impossible to regulate due to extreme irregularities even in one position. I've managed to get it such that on the wrist it does -4 during the day and lying dial up at night gets +5.5 overnight. That's the best I'll expect... 

watches with no second hand...

 
 By: G99 : January 27th, 2013-08:41
watches with no second hand are by far the most accurate :) i take it i'm doing ok then. on reviews i've seen people write that that it has 0 +/- deviation which i dont believe. have you tried wearing for 24 hours and adjusting to that deviation. i apprec... 

I don't believe them either

 
 By: Ed. W : January 27th, 2013-09:15
but then again I guess you could say mine runs "+1" a day, but with huge variations. I've just left it like this for now since I don't sleep with my watch on. It probably won't make the rotation enough to keep moving the whole time anyways.

its manual wind so i...

 
 By: G99 : January 27th, 2013-09:22
its manual wind so i have no problem. i wind mine about 9pm every night and they are fine. i would argue that yours runs a consistant + 1.5 secs on the basis that that is what it will gain when worn and then left face up overnight. thats far better than m... 

Automotive engine performance seems somewhat analogous to watches

 
 By: cazalea : January 28th, 2013-07:49
When you can buy a new car then put a "performance chip" in it and get 50 more horsepower "for free" it makes you question the manufacturer's credibility and engineering, doesn't it? Why didn't GM or BMW give us those 50 hp for the list price?! Is this si... 

not mind

 
 By: Theerawat : July 29th, 2013-23:16
For me, COSC is not the most important. One of my watch (speedy Pro) is not COSC, but it keeps a great time under COSC. Anyway, i prefer the Swiss watch, especially the Swiss movement (also German) rather than other movement. It's something about mind and...